Tue, Feb 7 2012

Interview with John Robbins - Part 2

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How to Live Sustainably (continued)

What can each of us do to hasten that day and in the meantime ensure this is a problem we are not a part of?
It has been calculated that if everyone in the US ate 10% less beef that would save enough grain to feed 60 million people a year. 60 million happens to be the number of people expected to die of starvation or other hunger-related diseases on the planet this year.

That doesn't mean all we have to do is eat 10% less beef and we'll have ended hunger, because there's no guarantee that that food would reach the world's hungry. At current prices they couldn't afford it and the way the world economy is set up right now, if you can't afford to buy food, you don't eat.

But it is guaranteed that the food won't reach those people if we continue to cycle it through the animals we eat. I say to audiences, "There are a lot of people who won't lift a finger and that can make the problem seem too overwhelming. But cut down by 20% and you're covering for one of those people, cut down by 30% and you're covering for two, and cut down by 100% and you're covering for 9."

People often feel helpless in the face of the enormity of the problem and say, "That person has a really big oar because he's rich and famous. I only have a toothpick so what can I do?" And I say, "If that's all you have to use, row with your toothpick. Just by doing that you become a bigger person and who knows how that will play out and what influence you could soon have. Even if you only have a toothpick, the way you live is having an influence on everyone you interact with and when someone is doing everything they can to live sustainably, that sends a very powerful message. It will be noticed by those around you and will make them reflect on their own lifestyles, values, choices and actions."

There is an illusion in our culture that the rich and famous determine things, but they are actually followers. This is about each of us doing our bit. What I'm talking about is the human spirit coming alive in response to our collective problems and challenges. These problems are not confined to any one place; they are global. The phrase "Think globally, act locally" has never been more appropriate.

When we widen our circle of compassion we don't restrict our concern to people we know or to people like us. We reach out to people of different nations, classes and colours and also to animals. That requires that we realize all of life draws breath from the same source and that we are interconnected, and the day we grasp that is the day we awaken.

It is so important we each realize our own power. It's easy to be overwhelmed by the problems and the economic clout that goes into perpetuating those problems. But the fact these problems are so big is the reason as many of us as possible need to stand up as examples of just, sustainable living.

At this point, do you think we're moving in the right direction collectively?
There are so many ways now in which consumers are becoming more conscientious. I love that people are starting to ask, "How was that meat produced", "Are those grapes sprayed," "Was that rug stitched together by a child forced to work horrific hours in terrible conditions due to the destitution of his or her family?"

People are starting to do things like switching off lights, changing to energy-efficient light bulbs, learning to insulate their homes more efficiently, and just generally greening up their lifestyles. This is based on a deep understanding as a culture that our lives have become very earth-unfriendly.

At a time when more and more people are living more consciously, an extremely worrying statistic from the FAO is that meat production is on course to double from its level of 229 million tonnes a year in 2000 to 465 million tonnes by 2050.
Yes, and a lot of that increase is coming from changing dietary patterns in less developed countries with large populations, namely China and India. India at least still maintains some vestige of its vegetarian roots but China is going the whole hog. KFC is making more money in China than in the US and McDonald's is opening a new restaurant in China every day.

But it's not just happening in China; it's happening everywhere in the developing world. People who become able to purchase meat and fast food seem to want to and this is thanks to the influence of western consumerist culture. We're exporting hamburgers and ice cream into cultures that have had simple, unprocessed, largely plant-based diets. These foods are tasty in an instant gratification sense, but people are not aware of the devastating health and ethical implications of eating these foods.

Much of my work now is to try to say to people in those countries, "As an American who grew up as heir apparent to the Baskin Robbins company and walked away from that because I saw what it was doing to the planet and couldn't support that, I gave up extreme wealth because I didn't want to give up my soul. Think about what you are doing taking on these western consumerist values."

Given the pollution already caused, the vast areas of forest and rainforest already destroyed, and the other finite resources already guzzled by global meat production, if the FAO's prediction comes true, what kind of a world will we be living in in just a few decades? Is it even possible do you think; can the planet even sustain animal agriculture on that scale?
Obviously not. One strong possibility is that oil could become so expensive that food transportation ceases to be financially viable and then we're back to locally grown food. There are other ways it could play out, but my preferred way is that people wake up to the fact we have huge problems which are demanding our urgent attention. If everyone just did what they personally could, we'd get there.

This is not even a political issue. Once the facts are understood there is general agreement on the urgency of the situation. When I am talking to someone who doesn't share my views, someone from the meat industry perhaps, I might say: "We disagree on a lot of things but we can agree on something. If we were both in a car crash on our way home tonight and found ourselves in intensive care and dependent on those support systems our prayers would be with each other and we would be deeply committed to those life support systems working properly. Well, we are deeply dependent on the life support systems of the planet yet the way we are living is abusing those support systems."

What would you say to those who believe consuming fish is a more sustainable food choice than consuming land-based animals?
It's deeply troubling how fast fish stocks have been decreasing. Most of us think of fish as a renewable harvest resource, like wheat, rather than species that are endangered, like panda or tiger. But as the technology used to vacuum every last fish from the ocean has become increasingly sophisticated, species after species has been pushed to extinction. Today, nearly all of the world's fisheries are depleted or in steep decline. And half of all fish species are considered to be vulnerable to or in immediate danger of extinction.

Some look to fish farming as an answer. But the farming of shrimp, salmon, trout, bass, yellowtail and other carnivorous species has actually increased demands on marine production. It takes five pounds of wild ocean fish to produce a single pound of farmed saltwater fish or salmon. The dismaying reality is that aquaculture, or fish farming, is now a contributing factor to the collapse of fisheries around the world.

You touched earlier on the fact that where our leverage is greatest is in the food we choose to eat. That is where we can have the most impact with the least effort. What are the other things that make a really big difference and that are relatively easy for anyone to do?
One of the most important things is buying less of everything. Buying a green version is a step forward, but buying less is a much bigger one. If you do this, you're not causing the production of more new stuff, using resources or exploiting less advantaged people.

Ask with every choice you make, "Does this enhance the earth or does this degrade the earth?" Vote with your life. Vote by the way you treat people. If you can live with respect for yourself and others you're taking a huge step. You're doing your part. If enough of us do our part we will turn the tide.

What are some other things that you personally do that may inspire readers who feel moved to tread as lightly as possible on the planet?
We've covered our house with solar panels which generate electricity from the sun. You can't do this if you're renting, so unlike the other things I've talked about this is not something everyone could do, but it is something a lot of people could do. It is a completely maintenance-free operation once it's installed, in time it pays for itself and from then on you're saving money.

We grow as much of our food as we can and the rest we buy from local farmers' markets. Almost everyone can grow something and growing your own food is a joy. It is key to reinstating your connection to the earth and reminding you what real food is.

We live in a three-generation household. Our 35-year old son lives with us, along with his wife who has lived with us for 14 years now, and our grand-twins who are seven. There are four adults in the house but we only have two cars, one a Prius. We try to minimize our car trips. If we need to go to the store we all talk and we make a list together so that rather than going once a week we can go once every two weeks. No car is "My car"; both cars are "Our cars". This forces us to communicate, otherwise someone may not have a car available when they really need one.

We develop, cultivate and appreciate our relationships with one another. We take each others' needs and feelings seriously and do what we can to uphold, affirm and cherish each other. The feelings of vitality and peace that come from being loved and knowing that your love is important to another person; when you have that in your life you are so much less susceptible to advertisers convincing you that their product is what's missing.

We define success as a culture almost exclusively in extrinsic, materialistic terms. The American dream is understood as limitless consumption but I believe there is a deeper, universal yearning and that is for limitless compassion. To me, a real success is someone who has beautiful relationships with other people. A real success is someone whose compassion makes a difference to those they interact with. A real success is someone who changes the way they live to make it more sustainable for the planet.

This article appeared in the Summer 2008 issue of Get Fresh! magazine.


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